current FORUM ISSUES (Please Read)

[JohnShaft]

OK guys, I thought it was about time to create a thread to discuss the direction of the forum.

I've always been really (read: too) lax when it comes to directing the forum, but I think that's probably harmed it's usability/effectiveness, and therefore our forum traffic.

This is an attempt to get us on track. If you want to comment in this thread feel free to.

Issue 1. Bad (over) quoting cluttering up the threads to hell. I'm seeing this a lot lately. I could have used examples from active posters, but have spared singling anyone out.

[JohnShaft]

One thing I've noticed is some people are really bad at proper post quoting. Specifically: they are over-quoting like madmen.

From the forum rules (http://www.horrorexpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6004):
DON'T OVER-QUOTE
Quote only what is relevant to your reply. Don't quote entire large posts (we've just read) by others.
It's unnecessary, clogs up threads and the database, and is a waste of bandwidth/download time.
-------------------------

Rule of thumb:
If the post you are quoting is longer than your reply you are over-quoting. Chop it down.

Rule of thumb:
If it's not relevant don't quote it.

Some are actually quoting a persons entire post to make a response. This is not the purpose of the quote feature. It often makes their post less readable than not quoting at all. The quote function is there to make it is easy to know what points you are responding to, when without quotes it wouldn't be clear.

If you're replying specifically to someone's non-short post you don't need their full post, just take out lines and leave only what is relevant to your reply so it is easy to understand what you're referring to.

Often you don't even need to quote posts at all:
If you are replying to a post immediately after it, particularly where you are both on topic, quoting is usually unnecessary.
Nor is it necessary to quote someone when you are making a general post in a specific thread (e.g. you're making a post about THE OMEN in a thread about it, and not replying to any specific points).

I've included some examples in the next post if you're unsure exactly what I mean.

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I can't stress enough how this affects thread readability, so please help me out with it.

[JohnShaft]

1. Over-Quoting big chunks to make short replies
Stuff about FINAL DESTINATION series... Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah FINAL DESTINATION blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah FINAL DESTINATION blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah FINAL DESTINATION blah blah blah blah blah. FINAL DESTINATION sucked after the first one. They need to stop making sequels.How you should quote a reply, by trimming down the long post:
Stuff about FINAL DESTINATION series... FINAL DESTINATION sucked after the first one. They need to stop making sequels.

2. Over-Quoting pointless chunks of Off-Topic text
(replying about THE OMEN but quoting a whole post with off-topic FINAL DESTINATION comments)
Stuff about FINAL DESTINATION series... Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah FINAL DESTINATION blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah FINAL DESTINATION blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah FINAL DESTINATION blah blah blah blah blah.

THE OMEN's death scenes are great though.Yeah I loved THE OMEN. I first saw it when I was... blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...How you should quote a reply, with just THE OMEN comment/s you are responding to.
THE OMEN's death scenes are great though.Yeah I loved THE OMEN. I first saw it when I was... blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...

[JohnShaft]

I've added some new User Titles to replace the worthless, terrible "New Member", "Full Member" default stuff. They are based off post count (I'm trying to change them to word count).

The best I've been able to come up with are (the current):
Extra
Speaking Part
Scream Queen
Horror Icon

So if you have any more suggestions to add to the above, or any other ideas, that would be great.

They need to be: horror based, and ideally they should represent an intuitive rank system (i.e. anyone would know Speaking Part is greater than Extra, etc.).

I thought of other ideas, such as Zombies, but couldn't meet the second criteria properly.

[KennyThaKilla]

Looks good, I'm just wondering about "Scream Queen". Does that work for guys?

Let me rephrase that... does that work for heterosexual guys? :)

[JohnShaft]

Looks good, I'm just wondering about "Scream Queen". Does that work for guys?
Let me rephrase that... does that work for heterosexual guys? :)Hah. Thought you'd be comfortable in your sexuality Kenny. :lol:
Miss Italy was happy to called a Scream Queen!

Hit me up with some ideas and if they sound good I'll go for them.

[KennyThaKilla]

Oh I'm comfortable enough, I'm just thinking Scream "King" would a little more gender appropriate for us guys. ;)

[Miss Italy]

Miss Italy was happy to called a Scream Queen!


Yes most definitely!! I would like to keep that name for a while longer!! :)

[KennyThaKilla]

I think you should own it permanently. ;)

[Miss Italy]

I think you should own it permanently. ;)

Haha, yes I think I should too!! :) Definitely suits the avatar!!

[JohnShaft]

Hah, well if I change them I'll let you keep that Missy. ;)

As for Scream King, I thought that myself.
Two problems though:
1. There's no gender setting to differentiate in the title setting.
2. What in the hell is a scream King?! :lol:

I'm trying to get Zombie-related titles so I can call myself "King of the Zombies".

Serious! :teeth:

[TheLurkingFear]

No one better take my scream queen title, I've grown quite accustomed to it!:lol:

[Francesco Dellamorte]

Never thought I would say this but I want to be a scream queen!

Move over Linnea & Tiffany, Francesco is on his way! :teeth:

[JohnShaft]

Hahah. See, I knew this would catch on. :lol:

500 posts needed. ;)

[Miss Italy]

It's the greatest name!! :lol:

[JohnShaft]

Ghostman banned via this thread (http://www.horrorexpress.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=6973), where he created another username to have conversations with himself. And all the other issues from him. And the crazy things he's done under his email address, after a bit of Google Fu. And yada yada...

[KennyThaKilla]

Conversations with himself? Not surprising. Can't say I'm too broken up about his ejection. Seems like the guy talked mostly about porn anyway... kind creepy. And what was with those threads he'd start about how we would be gone for a month, then continued to post everyday? Weird.

[JohnShaft]

Conversations with himself?Well when it comes to his Intro thread, and a porn post between the two of them, which would have been the tip of the iceberg. I really have no tolerance for creating deliberate multiple accounts, particularly when posting between them to yourself.
And what was with those threads he'd start about how we would be gone for a month, then continued to post everyday? Weird.I deleted three of them. And finally had to PM him.
Not surprising. Can't say I'm too broken up about his ejection. Seems like the guy talked mostly about porn anyway... kind creepy. I'm probably less bothered about porn posting than most, but Unconscious has told me more than once how it really shouldn't be here in any form, and I think I now have to agree with him.

I don't really want to badmouth the guy now he's gone (and can't post) but really he's far more trouble than he's worth (and that's not that much as a poster). Really had to PM him about issues 10 times more than everyone else combined. We're much better of without him when it comes down to it.

[KennyThaKilla]

Oh, I like porn just as much as the next guy, just seemed like it was pretty much the only thing on his mind most of the time, which just added to his "ick" factor. Idk, maybe I'm the only one that was put off by it.

[Unconscious]

Oh, I like porn just as much as the next guy, just seemed like it was pretty much the only thing on his mind most of the time, which just added to his "ick" factor. Idk, maybe I'm the only one that was put off by it.

It doesn't serve much of a place here, either. Personally, I always found it a little creepy when I log on here and see a thread like that. I like to keep my sexual life and my internet life separate (like one would with work/personal), but it seems some people don't share my point of view.

The 'Asian babe' thread was perfectly acceptable in my eyes - but I really don't want to be flicking through tentacle-sex or anything obscene while I'm on here! Keep that to the various fetish websites around the web. (Not to mention how off-putting it is for the ladies or the underage users here, bearing in mind when I registered here I was only 12 or 13!)

[KennyThaKilla]

Yeah, I guess I'm just talking about his comments during normal conversations more than anything else....

Lesbian Vampire Killers.

Pretty funny.:)


Originally Posted by ghostman
Is it a hardcore sex film, or only softcore?

I mean, put your tongue back in your mouth already, horn-dog.

[Unconscious]

Remarks like that are often left to slide, We are an adult site - and on occasion, remarks like that can be considered a joke, or a bit of playful banter.

They are complicated to deal with on moderation grounds, and is often left on a case-by-case basis. Sex is one of those things - like certain cuss words, and idealogies that are difficult grounds to tread on. On one hand, we don't want to walk around on eggshells as to not upset anyone, but on the other hand, we do not want anyone to be put off joining our community.

Constantly referencing sex and such, however, is crossing the line, which in became apparent in this particular case to be a much too regular occurrence.

[KennyThaKilla]

It wasn't that big of a deal, just an example of his mindset most of the time. And that was just one example.

[JohnShaft]

Yeah that's the thing. There was a lot of examples. And like Unc says that's where it becomes an issue.

Point noted by both of you on the Porn talk though. From now on we'll just make it a site policy that it's not acceptable. Talking/posting about hot women is one thing, porn something else.

This moderation stuff is a bitch though, mostly because you don't want to upset people (by warning/banning/etc). I started from a Free Speech, let people do/say what they want, angle. But that just ends up with bad apples spoiling the barrell. Hell in the old, old days I used to pretty much leave spammers to post. Crazy.

But like Unconscious says, if you're allowing people so much freedom (so they stay) that you put others off then you're doing yourself a disservice.

[KennyThaKilla]

Now I have to clear something up on my end. While I thought the quote above by ghostman was tacky, I support his right to say it and don't condone censorship in any way, shape, or form. I was just highlighting that particular post as evidence to his mindset most of the time. Obviously, he broke some site rules, talked shit in some emails, and got what was coming to him, but I've never supported deleting comments. Of course, that's just my opinion and ultimately, what you do with your site is totally up to you. Sorry for the rant, I just wanted to be clear on where I stand with censorship.

[Unconscious]

Now I have to clear something up on my end. While I thought the quote above by ghostman was tacky, I support his right to say it and don't condone censorship in any way, shape, or form. I was just highlighting that particular post as evidence to his mindset most of the time. Obviously, he broke some site rules, talked shit in some emails, and got what was coming to him, but I've never supported deleting comments. Of course, that's just my opinion and ultimately, what you do with your site is totally up to you. Sorry for the rant, I just wanted to be clear on where I stand with censorship.

I don't think there is any argument about censorship - you've been here a while and it should be pretty clear that things are run incredibly liberally - but to keep on topic is quite important. We have an off topic section, but we don't have a pornography section - as it doesn't really have much to do with the community, or horror movies. There has been a few (pretty obscene) posts scattered about now and then, which I'm quite quick to clear up. Discussions and such are welcome - but a line has to be drawn somewhere. It was only a few months back I had to get involved in people (no naming names here) discussing and trying to trade fetish pornography. If people wish to do that, there are plenty of sites that cater to the trading of such material.

Have you ever heard the saying 'Tell people what they can do, and they'll go just a little bit further'? In this case, it seems to have proven it's point. It's natural human behaviour to try and push the boundaries - but too often and too far is another matter entirely. If you place the 'line' slightly further towards what would normally be considered acceptable, people will only push the boundaries into what most of the users here are comfortable discussing, and in which case, it can be let slide... But it had been getting quite silly.

For the record though - the message you had quoted was left up (and not warned) for a reason; it's not too bad, but when it becomes a regular thing and the site is treated more like a porn forum is when it gets past the point of being able to let things slide.

It's like me saying 'shit' in this sentence, as opposed to in every sentence I have written. There's nothing wrong with the word, but too regular usage grows tiresome and a bit intimidating.

Just expressing my views here, I'd like to know what JohnShaft thinks.

[JohnShaft]

I think your views are really the same as mine mate.

To put it in my own words:
Let's take censorship/freedom of speech debate.
Can people say "fuck" or whatever swear word they want? Sure. I've never had a problem with that.
Can they call someone else on the forum a "nasty little fuck"? No. Not really.
What if they were swearing multiple times, say near-literally every sentence. That would grow tiresome pretty fucking quick. So, again no, not really.

And technically the above are both forms of censorship/restriction of freedom of speech.

There comes a point where some people are just saying stuff to provoke a reaction, not because the words they are using help them put across their point (which I would maintain swearing often does, when not used as a crutch).

Freedom of Speech anywhere is a misnomer. It doesn't exist. Just like actual freedom doesn't.
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I think you bring forth a very lucid point Unc - 'Tell people what they can do, and they'll go just a little bit further'. I've never heard this as such, but with a certain number of people it is very much true. GM was warned about making "Porn posts". So what does he do? Create another user account (a big no-no) and do it again.

I didn't see the posts about trading fetish pornography, and honestly that is quite ridiculous here. That actually does annoy me a bit.

I don't think the LVK comment is that bad. Said in the right way (by the right person) it could even be somewhat humurous. But when you're posting about sex all over the place here, you're obviously pushing boundaries no-one else is. Which he was warned about.

I actually don't believe I've ever warned anyone over language or the way they express themselves. And that pretty much sums up "you can say what you want to say" as much as anything else I could say.

[Francesco Dellamorte]

I think most of us know the difference between posting acceptable pictures/comments about actresses & what isn't acceptable.
Personally I didn't have any real issues with Ghostman, although his constant references to sex were a tad creepy. The main point was he didn't seem to really converse with anyone. He would just post random stuff & never really get into any conversations.

[KennyThaKilla]

Yeah, that's pretty much how I regarded him as well.

[JohnShaft]

The main point was he didn't seem to really converse with anyone. He would just post random stuff & never really get into any conversations.Yeah, that's pretty much how I regarded him as well.See that's the biggie.

You don't trade Peyton Manning/Steven Gerrard if he pushes his coach/manager. But if Peyton Hillis/Joey Barton does it he's out on his ear.

I like to consider myself a high quality poster, so someone who has more posts than me by posting one sentence non sequiturs irks me more than a little. I don't see what you're adding.

From a content contribution perspective he was the bottom by a gajillion miles.

[TheLurkingFear]

I knew something wasn't quite right with GM as soon as. I'm sure the guy was harmless enough. His constant sex-talk was tiresome and pushing it a bit sometimes I must say. His knowledge of the genre was obviously limited; add to that the fact that he didn't participate in conversations with other members and I'm surprised he lasted five years. You would think people had better things to do!:shock:

[Unconscious]

I've been here for nearly 8 years (Sweet Jesus!), yet lately I rarely post. I just sit quietly and judge users based on the content in their posts.. Just kidding. ;)

[KennyThaKilla]

So getting back to forum issues, I've noticed a snafu while trying to make new posts. Unfortunately, I keep running into this error message....

You have included 7 images in your message. You are limited to using 6 images so please go back and correct the problem and then continue again.

When I post a review, I usually end up including more than 6 images in my ratings system at the bottom of the review, so this error message drives me nuts. Can't say I've ever seen limitations like this on any other forum. Is there some way to disable this?

[JohnShaft]

I've got rid of this Kenny. It's set by default in VB to max of 4 images, and I'd bumped it up to 6. That's still not enough though. Shouldn't have a problem now.

[KennyThaKilla]

Thanks, John.

It's a silly little detail that I add to my reviews, but I like to use a little flair from time to time. :)