Horror movies today

[shadow]

As each year passes by. What do you feel on the state of horror movies today? Are horror movies getting better or are they getting worse?

[Scott W. Davis]

An interesting question, and thanks for posing it. It opens the forums up for some lively debate.

It would be easy to say that the state of horror films is lower than low. The basement. The rock bottom and the studios are just out to bleed the genre dry. But really that's a blanket statement. Actually, I think things are looking up.

Horror still gets no respect. And the more "sensitive" and "culturally aware" we pretend to be, horror seems to be something that's unfairly frowned upon. When training for my current job, as a group activity, we were asked to compile two truths and one lie about ourselves and everybody would have to guess what it is. I said that I had just recieved my Microsoft certification, I had done an infomercial for a national group of algae eaters and I was obsessed with all things horror. We had only known each other for about a week, so everyone had to guess what was what.

Our tireless owner, JohnShaft will tell you I'm not Microsoft certified since he winds up doing every last bit of tech work on the site. I did in fact do an infomercial for a national group of algae eaters. Yes, they did eat algae and it's about three times as surreal as it sounds. Yet not one person guessed the simple fact that I was obsessed with horror. How could I be? I seem so humorous, innocent and cheerful (If they only knew - a discussion on the joys of smoke and mirrors will come up soon I imagine). Horror is associated with people who are dark, moody, immature and more than a bit unbalanced. John Carpenter once said it was "one step up from hardcore porn" and it seems more true every day.

So, it's not a perfect world. What is going on then? Well, slowly but surely, people are discovering horror a bit more even if they aren't really saying it. The success of THE RING and SIGNS last year show that the love of fear is within us all. Hell, a buddy of mine called SIGNS the best film of last year (it's not) and yet he criticizes me for trying to get him to watch THE BEYOND. More horror films than ever are in development in major US and UK studios. It's definitely pointing towards something better.

But the best thing by far is the advent of what is being called, for lack of a better term, the digital revolution. Thanks to DVD and the internet, people are discovering the small groups of people who have been following and collecting for years. And no surprise, those groups are getting bigger and bigger. I've always been into horror, but I never really got into the international horror obsession until the internet linked me to various communities around the world and DVD provided me with entertainment without cultural boundaries. It's introduced people to films outside their shores and the classics that made the ones we love today great. It's been an amazingly positive impact. Not long ago, Horror Express would seem a silly idea. Where's the audience for it. Well, not only is the audience out there, it already has a strong presence on the net thanks to other sites that also cover the horror genre.

Of course, there's a downside. The success of THE RING and SIGNS may signal a glut of PG-13 horror, with the thinking that playing it safe is the way to get to the audience (In fact, neither film "played it safe," they just plain weren't R-rated stuff). The interest in international films has led to the Hollywood remakes of Asian horror films with the thought that "Americans won't read subtitles." This is an insult and English-speaking Europeans and Australians are probably not exempt from this twisted logic as evidenced by the recent decision to give DOG SOLDIERS II a more American appeal. Rediscovering the classics has led to remakes of DAWN OF THE DEAD (which sounds like it's own film these days), TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE, THE WICKER MAN and possibly SUSPIRIA. You'll hear me bitch constantly about all of this. But the mainstream has always tried to cash in and it's rare you find something truly fascinating so close to the center. The real action has always been on the fringes.

The state of horror today is not great and it won't be great for some time, if ever. What you thought I was going to be Mr. Rogers about this? People don't like us. But things are getting better and better, slowly but surely. And if we never get the respect we deserve, it looks like we're finally going to get some much deserved pats on the back.

[Bruce Dickinson]

I think things are now starting to turn for the better with the Ring, 28 days later, and thrillers like Frailty and Identity.

It seemed to me that for a while, directors would just run a horror series into the eventual death in outer space. Who has gone to space now? let's see:

Hellraiser
Jason
Leprachaun

Maybe the winner of Freddy vs Jason can take on the Leprchaun. I'd bet on the little guy, he could bite the others in the kneecaps.

I guess I wish the director of the first movie would have exclusive first rights to sequels. Then, the series would at least have some form of continuity.

It also seems with the Ring and others, storyline and character is getting more focus, which is good. Alfred Hitchcock could scare the daylights out of people with story and camera, and not show hardly any blood at all. We need more films that have that.

[JohnShaft]

Some very well made points Scott.

I think your appraisal of the thoughts of the general public towards people who "like horror" is spot on. I first became interested in horror movies before I'd reached double digits in age. My love for vampires, werewolves, and everything that goes bump in the night set me apart from "normal people".
My view is that a love of horror is a very healthy obsession. I see the whole genre as cathartic. It certainly helped me to come to terms with things, that as a child, scared me. I think facing the fear in horror films became very Nietschzean for me - "That which does not kill us makes us stronger". So I think I do owe the genre something of a debt.

I do think that Horror is becoming more accepted recently. And that is due to some excellent horror movies being made that the public can love without having to be afficiandos. I think it can only help us as viewers of an increasingly mainstream genre.

I might be wrong on this one, but I'd also venture that the nature of the modern world in the late 20th-early 21st centuries could also have something to do with the popularity, and even need, of horror. Here in the U.K. I've seen things at "tea time" that I find way more disturbing than almost every horror movie I've ever seen. Real life horror, whether it be seeing some pre-teen kid gunned down in the street by a sub machine gun, or the shot of a dancing wedding party plummeting through a collapsed dance floor to their death. Now that stuff disturbs me no end...
My mother "doesn't like gory horror films" despite being a fan of horror (both written and on screen) but my view on the gore is that as it isn't real it doesn't really affect me. No way in a million years I would watch an operation on T.V. Gruesome deaths in the HELLRAISER series however I can happily enjoy. And I don't even think that's due to desensitization. It's just a very healthy ability to seperate fact from fiction.

It is good to see that Hollywood doesn't seem obsessed with completely sanitizing horror movies. Look at the ultra gory FINAL DESTINATION 2 for example(even though I've yet to see it!). Scream and it's clones don't float my boat, but thankfully that isn't all that we're getting.

You also make a very good point Bruce, about Horror series spinning into terminal decline, often due to the lack of input of their originators. DOG SOLDIERS, an excellent film, was only made when Neil Marshall, it's Writer/Director, signed away all rights to a sequel. Hence the possible abomination of a sequel being stripped of everything that made it such a refreshing take on the Werewolf movie. It smells like they are way more interested in making it into a money spinning franchise than in capitalising on what made it so successful.
I think this franchise approach is possibly what I dislike most about modern horror movie making. They take a perfectly good movie, make another one or two acceptable ones, and then the quality just goes down the tubes.
I was a big fan of the first Hellraiser. I also loved the follow up Hellbound, maybe moreso. But really the third was totally insipid, and the fourth... "Jesus Wept."

My take is that we are making progress. But there is still a long way to go before the Horror genre get's the respect it's due.

Vive La Horreur! :afro:

[shadow]

To go deeper on the topic....REMAKES....why is Hollywood always trying to rehash a great horror movie? Have they ever heard of ORIGINAL ideas? After seeing Freddy VS Jason....how long has it been to see all that blood in a horror movie? It brought back so much of the vibe from the early 80's slashers. The reason I brought this up is HORROR is not dead....it is alive and kicking.

[chuk hell]

Originally posted by shadow@Aug 22 2003, 03:45 AM
To go deeper on the topic....REMAKES....why is Hollywood always trying to rehash a great horror movie?
That's easy to answer: It's all about money.

Producers look at any film as a gamble. They may or may not make back their investment. The idea of doing a remake is the same thinking that's behind all the movie versions of TV series and all the comic book movies: there's a built-in audience. It's a way of hedging the bets. They figure if there are X number of hardcore fans of THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE then some number <X will go see a remake, insuring that the remake ( or TV movie or comic book movie) makes back it's investment and hopefully makes some money.

Sick of remakes? Don't go see 'em. Only when they stop making money will they stop making them.

It's all about money.

[shadow]

Originally posted by chuk hell+Aug 22 2003, 07:32 AM
Sick of remakes? Don't go see 'em. Only when they stop making money will they stop making them.
Actually...I have never went to see a remake. I have seen remakes on TV...but that is the extent of it.

[chuk hell]

Then it's not your fault. :rolleyes:

[DevilMan]

I believe that the good old days of "raw" horror movies such as DAWN OF THE DEAD, THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE, THE EVIL DEAD, CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST, LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT, NEKROMANTIK, and ZOMBIE are all but gone. That's exactly why I had to go to the Asian Cinema myself for a much welcomed "fix" of new and different horror. And there, I discovered the infamous CATEGORY 3 genre. Yikes, it sends shivers down my spine just typing that term.

-Steve

[shadow]

Originally posted by DevilMan@Aug 25 2003, 03:06 AM
I believe that the good old days of "raw" horror movies such as DAWN OF THE DEAD, THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE, THE EVIL DEAD, CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST, LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT, NEKROMANTIK, and ZOMBIE are all but gone. That's exactly why I had to go to the Asian Cinema myself for a much welcomed "fix" of new and different horror. And there, I discovered the infamous CATEGORY 3 genre. Yikes, it sends shivers down my spine just typing that term. Talking about "raw" movies...dont forget The Hills Have Eyes. The 70's, what a decade for horror movies.

[DevilMan]

Damn right! A good addition! Check out the newer WRONG TURN which is a very HILLS HAVE EYES-ish flick.

-Steve

[shadow]

Originally posted by DevilMan@Aug 25 2003, 03:23 AM
Damn right! A good addition! Check out the newer WRONG TURN which is a very HILLS HAVE EYES-ish flick. Why thanks for the recommendation.....I'll have to check that out.

[jester21]

I will always like and hate some horror films. I think some of them are getting better, but original ideas are hard to find IMO. I like a lot of the foreign and independent films I've seen. Some of the American films have been a bit of a let down for me, especially Freddy vs. Jason I didn't really like it all that much.

[PepperRocks06]

As a Horror Movie fan, Horror movies are becoming more and more filed with people getting cut up into pieces and Peoples guts everywhere (or at least their head is gone). The most Horrific movie I've seen in the last week is a movie called "Wrong Turn." You have to see it to believe it.

[Supercool]

Originally posted by shadow@Jun 21 2003, 04:46 PM
As each year passes by..what do you feel on the state of horror movies today? Are horror movies getting better or are they getting worse?
My personal feeling is that you realy have to look to the less obvious places.

The major American studios are going to come up with the occasional blockbuster which actually works as a decent horror, and ignores all the conventions which the cannon-fodder films are made to. But generally speaking, I find it to be very rare that I actually find a well known American horror to be very compelling.

But theres always going to be a world of lesser known people putting out original stuff. You just have to look for it.

[Keederdag]

I agree; most Blockbuster hyped American Horror is wanting. I generally look to the smaller, less funded features for my Spicy Meat <_< I also think Horror is the red haired step child of the movie industry. They allway's describe what they put out as "thrillers" and if that fails then label it horror as a last resort. :(

[Scott W. Davis]

Originally posted by Keederdag@Dec 14 2003, 11:09 PM
I agree; most Blockbuster hyped American Horror is wanting. I generally look to the smaller, less funded features for my Spicy Meat <_< I also think Horror is the red haired step child of the movie industry. They allway's describe what they put out as "thrillers" and if that fails then label it horror as a last resort. :( The old John Carpenter quote about horror being one step up from hardcore porn is sadly accurate. People don't react strangely when you tell them you like action films where everyone's getting shot. But tell them you like horror films and a good percentage will react negatively.

But if I cared about that, I wouldn't be writing for this now would I? :devil:

Oh. incidentally, can't remember if it was DevilMan or someone else who kept forgetting to log in and was listed as "guest." Well, editors are not immune. I just did the same thing... THREE TIMES! Thank God for deleting priviledges. :p

[Caleb Goodwin]

Originally posted by Scott W. Davis@Dec 15 2003, 12:35 AM
Oh. incidentally, can't remember if it was DevilMan or someone else who kept forgetting to log in and was listed as "guest." Well, editors are not immune. I just did the same thing... THREE TIMES! Thank God for deleting priviledges. :p That was me :blush: :blush:

[crezi_munky]

i love the horror movies of 2003, its the best yaer so far. i just hate remakes, they should make new movies that will entertain us all than those stupid remakes. :devil:

[42nd Street Freak]

This is the rub with 'Horror' nowadays.....Most modern horror films are made with a budget and a backing that older film makers would have killed for. And yet we still get crap.
True we have always had crap....but the crap films in total then cost the same as what they spend today on employing the 'Official Studio Arse Wiper' the Latest big Star on just one film.

Fact is the U.S product that gets shown in Cinemas (and let us not forget...this was the home of ALL horror films once) is very small in number compared to what it was, and has budgets that are in another Universe.

The number of Cinema horror releases is now so small compared to the heyday of the Grindhouse and the Drive-In that the crap just stands out more. The crap pile swallows the odd excellent horror achievement.

IMHO 'Horror' lost it's power when it lost it's venues....
When the Grindhouse Cinemas closed after places like 42nd Street choked on their own vomit (hey clean it up, down rip it down..oh sorry too late, here comes a 'Disney' Store) and the Drive-Ins became parking lots and 'Garden Tools R Us' stores.

The Venues vanished, so the maveric Distributers gave up, and many talented (or at least amazingly entertaining) Directors lost any market for their product.

The small Horror/Exploitation producer vanished to become big Studios, with multi-plex cinemas that a lot of the time only show their own films.
The Studio owned cinemas becameEVERTHING as the smaller independent cinemas were demolished.

It is a well known fact that indy Producers (especially of a 'Horror' film, always much maligned by Studio Heads unless they got lucky with a one off hit) have a VERY hard job even getting distribution, as the Distributer knows it will be VERY hard to get the film shown anywhere.

Hence big budget, sterile, Studio 'Horror' only.

Add to this the decline of the European film industry (especially Italy) and all those wonderful, off the wall, balls out horror films were no longer around anyway...though your Warner Village Cinema would be very unlikely to show the latest Italian Zombie Gore fest even it did exist.
Not so the Grindhouse Circuit and the Drive-In.

DTV films do indeed exist in a vast number, but this is a sorry comedown (and most are made by people trying to make a Studio horror film on $2 and so most are terrible).
True in the late 80's Video became a mammoth..MAMMOTH market for the Horror film. but these were CINEMA horror films. Shot on film, made to be shown in a public venue, made to shine bright on that big, big screen. They were CINEMA films on Video...not compromised by the medium SHOT on video movies.
Big difference.

Asian Horror films of course have, since the late 80's early 90's, become a more widely available.
And some true genius is indeed at work. It always has been, you only have to watch any late 70's/early 80's Asian Horror film to see the imagination, but they are (the odd release aside) stuck with direct to DVD/VHS distribution, and are shoved in a ghetto anyway due to the fact that most are subtitled.
I love Asian Horror, but it's very nature means it is not the power at the Cinema that it should be. Even the most successful Asian Horror film has small scale returns compared to most average gross Studio films.
Hence the more aceptable, toned down, English language re-makes. They themselves compromised and watered down by their very creation.
All this is a far cry from the 'glory' days of the late 60's to the late 80's.

DVD has been the Horror film's saviour. It allowed lost gems to be rediscovered, the ability to release Unrated films in the U.S means that the most extreme/obscure Horror film can now be seen.
Many titles thought lost or only available on rare, scratched old VHS prints, are now here in amazing remastered versions.
Anyone old enough (or any Brits who lived through the 'Video Nasties' scare) to remember these wonderful, but cheap and dirty days of dusty VHS releases, and 3rd generation dupes, would never have dreamed such films would have this kind of loving release.

BUT.....that is DVD, and most of the Horror stuff (the VAST amount even) really worth collecting are in actual fact old movies. Old, once shown big and proud at a cinema, movies.
These were 'Horror' films, made on a wing and a prayer, but were designed to be seen in the same way, and accorded the same amount of distribution, as the latest Studio release today.

Now, when it comes to 'Horror', in the main, all we get ARE Studio releases.
Made to be Multi-Plex friendly (sure some wilder stuff does creep through, I am not saying it's all bad) and made....without any real soul most of the time.

[42nd Street Freak]

And to add more waffle....Perhaps it's also BECAUSE of the big budgets that many 'Horror' films now lack any real character and soul.

Perhaps it breeds compromise and lazyness in filmmakers.

In the days when making and funding a film was a cutthroat business, where everyone was working for low, low wages or funding it themselves and thus have everything riding on a hit, where people really made films for the thrill And love of it...more passion and creativity was put into the film.

And in a time when any old TV pretty face can get $2 million plus for a role in a 'teen pack shot', Studio Exec created slasher flick, and the Director is paid big bucks for just turning up...that dedication and passion for the success of the film is just not there.

True some 70's - 80's product was made for a quick buck, but most of these people (like Andy Milligan say) were basically bizarre and off the wall characters that carried much heavy, dark, baggage with them (they would not even be employed nowadays by a Studio), so even this quick buck stuff was invigorated with a manic energy and twisted vision.

[UnHoLy]

I grew up on Horror Films, and no one can say they're getting better, they are getting worse. You have FEW decent new ones. They cut too much shit out of movies in these modern days. Back then they could do whatever and it would just get an "X" rating, then cut out some things to make it "R" but it was still gory and sweet as fuck.
Nowadays, directors are pussies and the general audience complains too much.

So they are definately getting WORSE!!!!

[JohnShaft]

And to add more waffle....Perhaps it's also BECAUSE of the big budgets that many 'Horror' films now lack any real character and soul.

Perhaps it breeds compromise and lazyness in filmmakers.[To ressurect an old thread found while sorting out the archives]
I think big budget horror has *the* greatest problem in producing a quality product because the number of interfering studio executives, who wouldn't know a story if it bit them, is proportional to the films budget. And when there's that many executives pushing at writers and directors *they will get their way* or the movie won't be made. They will force the real creatives to make choices with the script that are detrimental. They will force their hamfisted vision on those who know the story inside out. The power is in the hands of the executives, many of whom have failed at the creative side of the business, and become executives because they were failures.

And nothing points out the perils of studio interference like sequels. A scriptwriter can write a great original script, but once it's sold it's no longer his property, and the studio can then do what they want with any sequels. The studio has all the power. I've been reading screenwriting blogs on this very subject just recently and it's a subject that the writers seem powerless to deal with.

Having said that I don't think the state of Horror is as desperate as it could be. I think there's some of hope in some of the original works of later. And if many of the remakes would just be ditched, and their budget shared out amongst the rest of genre movies, we could have the brightest period for horror for 20 plus years.

[Raven]

I'm a big fan of low budger horrors. But big budget horrors could work IF hollywood would stop reproducing the same crap over and over again and actually THINK up new ideas that are freash, original. They should also stop using the same characters repeatedly, they are too many Laurie Strodes and Michael Myers out there.

[pmshayley]

Good point, John; best case most recently would have to be DARK WATER--great cast, but what a crappy movie. I like ghost stories, but some of them just don't work because they think if they spend more money it will make more money. I heard that Reece Whitherspoon is getting paid something like 20 million to do a horror film; what the fudge is that all about?! That's the entire budget for some horror movies, and they turned out pretty damn well! Star power does not equal good film; anyone could have done Kidman's role in THE OTHERS, and DARK WATER should never have even been made. Could Jennifer Connely(hot babe!) find nothing better to do that month? I'd rather watch a movie made by Sam Raimi and a VHS camcorder than something by Speilberg with digital cameras and $100 mil and a crazy actor.

[JohnShaft]

I heard that Reece Whitherspoon is getting paid something like 20 million to do a horror film; what the fudge is that all about?! That's the entire budget for some horror movies, and they turned out pretty damn well! Star power does not equal good film; anyone could have done Kidman's role in THE OTHERS, and DARK WATER should never have even been made. Could Jennifer Connely(hot babe!) find nothing better to do that month? I'd rather watch a movie made by Sam Raimi and a VHS camcorder than something by Speilberg with digital cameras and $100 mil and a crazy actor. Yeah I find the "make horror movie and add big star" trend worrying. It's an insult to traditional horror fans, and just an attempt to drag in all the non-horror fans to watch the movie. I have no wish to see some "A-list star" slumming it in a horror movie. I mean really, who goes to see these people anyway? It probably isn't us. And that's the thing. These big budget horrors aren't being made for us. They're being made for Joe Public, who doesn't give a shit about the genre. That's fine, but you're not telling me any of these movies are going to turn into genre-defining classics that will be viewed with the same joy 30 years from now.

All the ones you mention, Gellar, Kidman, Connelly. It's just the Hollywood trend with celebrity, thrown at Horror. And dare I say that Horror gets shafted by Hollywood more than any other genre? It's a genre that has a purity. Or it did have.

[Tenebraeuk]

Modern Horror is in good shape because Hollywood trends have dictated that it should be fashionable again, largely due to it being some time since the last wave of great horror movies (late 70s early 80s) and a new audience is ripe to view remakes of the classics (DOTD, TCM, THHE need I say more) but we must not forget that Horror movies have had spells of great public popularity in the past! The 1930's and 1940's saw Hollwood churning out Horror movies to big box office returns and made stars of the likes of Lon Cheney (Snr and Jnr), Bela Lugosi and Boris Karloff. It was relatively quiet for a decade or so then the 1960's had a horror boom, another decade or so and the late 1970's to mid 1980's saw Horror movies in vogue again, another decade or so and we are up to the present and the recent wave of OK originals and so-so remakes!

All of these booms have one thing in common, a technoligical step in the way in which movies are made and viewed. The early silent movie era had its horror surge (Nosferatu and Lon Cheney Snr stuff) the talkies and big cinemas ushered in the 1930's and 40's wave of big horror success, the advent of colour kick started the whole Hammer success (BLOOD WAS RED!! ARGHHH) and the Video revolution gave us the late 70's early 80's horror movie bonanza! The advent of DVD gave horror a new lease of life a few years back (all those classics easily available got alot of people back into horror) and gave Hollywood the impetus to start putting money back into horror again.

What do you think? Am I right or is that all a load of bollocks? Feel free to pick holes in my theory...

[shadow]

Thanks John...for bringing back this topic from the swamps.

I personally want to see original ideas...not this remake crap. More money they use to make a horror film...the more chances they have to mess it up. Unfortunely we are at that "computer age" for effects. What was the difference between films that came before? The effects were MORE creative. They would use anything to make an effect work. Now we have computers to do the work.

[JohnShaft]

Unfortunely we are at that "computer age" for effects. What was the difference between films that came before? The effects were MORE creative. They would use anything to make an effect work. Now we have computers to do the work. See, I hate ALL of this CGI shit. Hate it. I really do. I don't care how good it looks it still looks fake.

Take a movie like DOG SOLDIERS, on almost zero budget, they stuck guys in "wolf suits" and it still beats the shit out of anything they could have done with CGI. Look at the monster effects in THE THING. Perfect. It's organic. You don't need to go any further than this and try and make something that looks fake look more real. It's going to be a long while before they can make CGI that looks completely lifelike, and until that time I don't want to see it. And I sure as hell don't want to see it in horror.

[Raven]

Thats exactly how I feel. I mean LAND OF THE DEAD went down the CGI route and it looked terrible. But DAY OF THE DEAD used good ol' animatronics for the jawless zombie, it worked because it was (essentially) real. If it looks real, it feels real.

[Tenebraeuk]

Yeah, but the CGI is not gonna go away (no matter how much I hate it) so we just have to hope it keeps on improving to the point where we dont notice it anymore. I am a big fan of traditional latex gore FX but I think CGI will come on 100% in the next 5 years or so, its the general feel of modern horror and not the FX that holds them back, if the Hammer studio had CGI they would have used it, ditto all the Italian gore maestros and all USA produced horrors in the early 80s.

No one has picked up on my point about Horror being a technologically led genre by its very nature of representing the unreal and the CGI is an extension of this.

[JohnShaft]

No one has picked up on my point about Horror being a technologically led genre by its very nature of representing the unreal and the CGI is an extension of this.
No, but I think you're probably absolutely right. It does make sense really. Horror is pretty much the only genre that often lives or dies on its ability to make the unreal real, and as such it needs technology to do it. I'd say the only other genre needing anything at all like that is Science Fiction.

And while I agree on ultra-real CGI being a big step forward I think it needs to be indistinguishable from reality (think the simulated "Arnie death scene" in THE RUNNING MAN). And where we differ is I'm not sure that that will come in the next 5 years. Sure in 5 years time it will be way ahead of now, but I'm not sure there's not a certain massive leap that needs to be made, something that could take far longer.

Ten, do you have any examples of CGI in horror that you think did the job better than traditional special effects would have? Because I'm not sure I do. But you are right, no matter what, it isn't going to go away.

See the chief aim should be realism, and latex is real so it has less of hurdle to overcome. My problem is I think a lot of the times they use CGI when they tradtional techniques would work better. They CGI someones face instead of sticking some makeup on. And the effect, and therefore the film, suffers.

[Tenebraeuk]

Your point is spot on JS and as CGI has not quite reached the requirements of surpassing excellent make up FX I don't have any example at hand, but give it a few years and I am sure I will. Cast your mind back to the early 90's and I think Hellraiser 3 was the first horror movie I saw CGI in and it was fucking shocking! Its come along way since then and I am sure it will get alot better. For the record I don't approve of CGI for CGI's sake (STAR WARS!!!!!!!!!!!) in any genre, but I am sure kids growing up with CGI films don't even notice its there! Its just us oldies that get the hump about it.

[Tenebraeuk]

Just thought, King Kong. It had some dodgy CGI moments (that stampede scene was crap) but Kong himself looked alot better than Rick Baker in a monkey suit!

[SUPREME]

Worse than they used to be, because of: overused CGI, forumlaic plots and predictable outcomes, dumbed-down action (fights are mechanically choreographed, and hidden wires can fling folk around - repetitively - to comic-book effect), safe and vacantly handsome stars (who no longer get their tits out) commanding the attention of vacant teenyboppers who champion their anti-heroes and demand more instalments of the same old bogeyman story with interchangeable gangsta-rappers in supporting roles.

But, most damagingly, the onslaught of post-modernist self-reference has been in danger of consuming the traditional horror film - of creating a whole new of breed of genre awareness that will cancel out the thrill of the scare when the audience is so much in on the joke. Encouragingly though, this late-90s trend seems to be dying down a little - films like MY LITTLE EYE, SESSION 9 and even DEAD BIRDS show few signs of pandering to the more smug viewer.

[MANGLER]

I hate movies today period. I guess it's just cuz I'm gettin old. Some of em are made well but they just don't excite me anymore.

Horror especially gets nothin from me these days. Everything's been done pretty much. No ideas that are original and scary.